0:00:00.8 Louie Marven: Welcome to Resource on the Go, a podcast from the National Sexual Violence Resource Center on understanding, responding to and preventing sexual abuse and assault. I'm Louie Marven, and I'm a Project Coordinator at the NSVRC. This episode is part of a series on partnerships that reach and support men who are survivors of sexual violence. Today, Kris Mady is joining me to talk about groups in men's prisons. Kris is a Program Director at Just Detention International or JDI.

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0:00:48.8 LM: Kris, hi. You and I work together on this project where we create training and resources that help people work with survivors of sexual violence who are men, and what you and JDI especially bring to that project is the perspective of working with men who are incarcerated. So tell us a little bit about yourself and about JDI and your work on this project generally.

0:01:14.9 Kris Mady: Hi, Louie. So good to be here with you. Yeah, so I'm really excited to talk about this. Again, my name is Kris. I use he/him or they/them pronouns. I work with Just Detention International. And what JDI does is we're a health and human rights organization that works to end sexual abuse in all forms of detention. And so all of our work is really dedicated to that mission. One of the most exciting things that I get to do with JDI is providing support services inside of a prison here in California. But why I think this is so important and why our partnership Louie is so important on this project is when we're talking about folks who are behind bars, over 90% of those people are men. So this is really, really important because we're just talking about a huge number of men who have such a large amount of trauma, both prior to incarceration and who continue to experience traumas while they're in detention. So again, just why I care so much deeply about this and I hope folks that are listening that this is something that you care about too, and if not, we'll convince you today to care about it.

0:02:26.8 LM: Kris, I really appreciate working with you on this project all the time. And I'm so glad to have this more specific conversation with you today because I know that you're a part of a team that runs those support groups in a men's prison like you mentioned in California. And we thought that instead of having a very broad conversation about that topic and what it is in sort of a general way on today's episode, but instead we talk more in depth about your specific group that you work on and what it looks like. So hopefully people who are thinking about starting a similar group in their service area can find some practical tips from you and also maybe some listeners who are doing something similar but maybe would benefit from some ideas that you're offering about how they might do something different or change or add to what they're already doing can get something out of this conversation as well. So tell us about your group.

0:03:24.5 KM: Yeah, so absolutely. And I think too, just in thinking about tips and skills and building that, if you're an advocate listening to this, JDI does have a group's guide that's really, really specific and detailed. So if you're thinking about getting started and running a groups, that's totally a resource available to you. In terms of the group that I help facilitate, it is a 14-session series for men inside of the California Rehabilitation Center, which is a large prison in Norco, California. There's about 3000 men in that facility. And that's the group that we really wanted to focus on because I think it's been such a success. And I just am excited to talk about kind of how we've moved it from a smaller series to this 14-week series. So it's definitely getting bigger and we've had a lot of interest from the folks that are detained there in attending that group.

0:04:23.7 LM: Great. So our series is about forming partnerships. We think that's a really important topic when we're talking about really doing any services, but our project is about working with men. And so we know that when we're talking about working with men, one of the things that we really wanna encourage people to do is to form partnerships with organizations that are already places where men are or where men go for services if men aren't going to your sexual assault center. So clearly in order to do this group inside of the facility that you're working in and in order for listeners to do something similar in their own communities, you've gotta have a partnership in place. You've gotta have a relationship in place with the facility. So tell us how you got the group started and what went into forming that partnership and maybe also what goes into maintaining it.

0:05:19.3 KM: Yeah. I think when we're thinking about building relationships with facilities, it's really tricky. It's tricky because detention facilities are often very insular places and they're not used to having a lot of people from the outside come in. So to get a program running, it takes a lot of work and a lot of consistency in terms of contacting different people inside including both the staff and really getting buy-in from the population as well. So in terms of our group and building the relationship with the facility there, it really started off with just a cold call to the facility and trying to figure out who do I need to even get in touch with. In California, there's a community resources manager, and that's kind of the staff person that's the main go-to person for outside people coming in. So we were luckily able to connect with them, set up in-person meeting with that person and really just discuss what we were hoping to do.

0:06:20.3 KM: I think having that in-person meeting really made the difference. I think we had to really sell what we were doing because they have a lot of people trying to get in, maybe not for the best reasons and it is work for them to get a group going on their end as well. So we really had to sell what we were doing, really explain the experience that we have in doing this work. So that was a big piece of it. Was just staying on top of that. I think the other hurdle when thinking about going inside detention is figuring out clearances. You have to do a lot of paperwork, a live scan, some folks require different background checks to be able to get inside different facilities. So all of that takes time and you really just have to follow up with that.

0:07:10.8 KM: And that has to be renewed annually. So not only are you doing it once, but you're doing it every single year. You're doing the trainings with the facility and you're staying on top of that. So a lot of organization and just really making sure you're really staying up to date with that. And I think that's really important because at a place like CDCR facilities, which is the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, the longer you are a volunteer at that facility or an outside person coming in, the easier it is to get certain levels of clearance. So we started off with needing to have what's called a sponsor, which means we had to have a staff person that worked at the facility escort us in and be with us for six months. And then we were able to kind of graduate from that to be able to go in and get the keys and get an alarm and get all the things we need to do because we were able to prove over that six months that hey, we can do this and we can have a higher level of clearance. So it took a long time to get there, but now I'm able to go in and get all of those things because we're able to build those relationships with facility staff, build trust there, and really just stay on top of it.

0:08:25.3 LM: That's great. Kris, I heard you say so many things that are so broadly relevant to any kind of partnership. Like you were talking about knowing your audience and making sure that the people who you wanted to work with were like getting something out of the partnership or that you respected kind of where they were coming from and what they needed out of what you were bringing. Yeah, I always think when I'm in another place and I don't know, going about my life and there are clearly like rules that I don't know, I always find that so frustrating when somebody expects that I would just know those rules. And so I like that you talked about kind of just having to go with the bureaucracy in that setting and kind of be adaptable and flexible and figure out kind of their processes and how to do something that you might do differently in the rest of your work kind of in a new setting. And that that's something that goes into a good partnership. So thanks for talking about that. And yeah, so you are talking about kind of what the group is and what the partnership looks like, and can you also talk about the structure of the group? Like what does it look like and how do you facilitate it? What are some of those things? 

0:09:42.8 KM: Yeah, absolutely. So I think one of the other things in terms of setting it up that was really important to us is that the folks who attend the groups are able to get some sort of credit or something out of it. And here in California, there are groups where you're able to get what's called Rehabilitative Achievement Credits or RAC credits for programming that's run. And that means you have to get your curriculum approved by headquarters for those credits. But that was really important to us because if a person is able to get 52 hours of that RAC accredited programming, they can get 10 days off their sentence. So for us, that was really, really important to say, okay, if folks are gonna attend this class, that means they're gonna be able to get out, they're gonna be able to stay out. That's our goal, is to create healthier communities and healthier people.

0:10:35.3 KM: And so getting time off the sentence was absolutely a part of that. So that was also a piece too, thinking about, okay, how can we make sure we can get these programs approved by headquarters? So that took some time as well. So in terms of our program, we actually started as an eight-week program, which was a little bit shorter. And then the longer we were doing it, we were just getting a lot of feedback from the guys in the group that they wanted it to be longer. And we also found that the time it took to build rapport inside of a men's facility, sometimes took a little bit longer than in a women's facility. So we've been able to expand the program to a 14-week program. So we do go once a week for two hours, and we run each group for those 14 weeks.

0:11:21.1 KM: It's really important that we show up every week, we show up on time because we wanna be people that our group members can rely on, that they can trust, they know we're gonna show up and be there. So those are just a few of the pieces of it. We also had to get buy-in of the population. There's lots of different classes available, although I will say in a men's institution, there tends to be a lot less services available than in a women's institution. That's kind of one of my biggest things I think a lot of people don't know and that I like to talk about. So while people are maybe excited for the programming, they're not used to attending programming all the time, so there needs to be some sort of like, okay, why am I even going to this? 

0:12:05.2 KM: So we were really crafty with our way that we were advertising in the sense that we're not saying this group is only for survivors, or that we're talking explicitly about trauma. So our group is actually a therapeutic art workshop program. So we were able to frame it in the sense of building hope for the future and building self-care regimen in making art and using a creative expression. So we were able to talk about different things that people might be able to recognize and say, hey, yeah, that sounds like something I'm gonna... I like that and it isn't intimidating to be like, yeah, that's a class that they feel proud that they signed up for. So those were some of the few things that we had to think about. And even just on the poster, what does that look like? 

0:12:51.8 KM: And so I think all of that went into play as well. But the actual 14 sessions, we kind of run them in kind of the same sort of way each time, so folks know what to expect. We don't wanna like kind of have one thing one week and then the next week something totally different because that can be a little jarring for folks. So we do have sort of a usual agenda that we follow, which is we start the workshop with sort of a really pretty simple icebreaker. We usually ask people to think about what is the best thing that's happened to them in the last seven days. And the reason we do that is because in a detention setting, there are so many bad things that happen, it can feel overwhelmingly negative. And so while we don't wanna pretend like everything is sunshine and rainbows, there are bright spots that people have that they often don't have a chance to talk about or brag about, whether that's they got their GED or they were able to reconnect with a cousin they haven't spoken to in months or whatever it is.

0:13:56.3 KM: So this just gives every participant just a few minutes to really highlight... To shine a light on that bright spot on their day. So that's how we start off each group. We then move into a mindfulness or a meditative activity. And I do run this as a progressive muscle relaxation because, again, thinking about the folks that we're working with, a lot of them have never done mindfulness before. They've never done sort of the kind of activities that maybe we think about in terms of healing and things like that in the outside world. So this is really a helpful technique because it's a physical activity. You can tense and relax different muscles in your body, and generally they really get that. Usually it takes about five minutes. And I'm laughing a little bit because sometimes people get a little bit sleepy and whenever they do, I always tell them, you're doing it right.

0:14:48.3 KM: That means you're actually able to relax. And I really do mean that because, again, in prison, there are few opportunities for someone to feel safe and comfortable relaxing fully. And so if they were able to get to that point where they are sleepy or even fall asleep for a minute, I see that as a total success. So that's just the first kind of bit of the group. We then move into some journal prompts. Of course, not everybody is gonna have the same level of like written comfort, so some folks feel really comfortable with writing, some folks really don't and maybe struggle with reading. So we make sure that all of these things can also be done verbally. We have a great group discussion about the topics. We discuss things like positive goal setting, developing personal affirmations, processing grief and loss, building healthy communication and community.

0:15:40.3 KM: And we usually have about a 30-minute discussion on that. From there, we have art projects that are related to those different topics that allow someone to use the other side of their brain to really just process that and express themselves. And for the art, we provide all of the art supplies, which again, thinking about partnerships to get those art supplies in, it takes a lot of work, so you have to get them all cleared. So it's really important though that they have access to that. 'Cause again when we're thinking about prison, a lot of folks don't have access to colored pencils, markers, anything like that. So anything that we want to allow folks to make, we have to bring in. And overwhelmingly, the paint is the winner. People haven't used paint since they were in kindergarten. And so it's just really exciting to be able to offer paint as a way for people to express the different experiences that they've been through.

0:16:38.4 KM: So they usually have about 45 minutes to work on an art project. And then at the end of each workshop, we do a little bit of a closeout, and our participants are able to share the art that they made with each other and really celebrate that. And we always say in the group, there's no such thing as bad art. We have people that have never made art in their life. And I always say, we're not trying to make you become the next Picasso, it's okay if you're not. If you're having fun, fantastic. This is just a way to kind of express yourself, try something new. And a lot of people end up making something that they actually are really proud of, or they send home, they send to their kids, they send to their partners. So it is a really, really nice way of processing something that can be really, really serious like grief, for example, in a way that's tangible that they can get hands on with, but they don't have to fully say like this is what happened to me, or this is what I'm going through, they can do that through their art.

0:17:36.0 LM: This is so good, Kris. You're throwing out so many gems. You said that you actually added more sessions when working in the men's facility because of the observation that it might take a little bit longer to build rapport with men. That's what you said, right? 

0:17:52.0 KM: Yeah, yeah. So we were able to advocate to add four additional weeks on. And it's really made such a difference. We've been able to... With the groups we've had the 14 sessions with, we just really build like a mini community of folks, maybe never even spoke to each other, really feeling comfortable in opening up about deeply personal things in a way that we don't see men do initially. But sometimes when we're working with women, that is kind of part of the conversation. They're used to going to groups, they're used to communicating in this way. So in the men's facility, we found it just took a little bit longer but we were really able to still build that same strong core, it just took some time.

0:18:34.3 LM: Yeah. I think that's such a great takeaway even just beyond working in detention facilities. I think hopefully what people are hearing when listening about providing services to men who are survivors of sexual assault in the community or in detention, is that like one of the things that might mean, and this is speaking really generally, and it obviously is gonna be different for every individual. But what it might mean is that you might need to allow for some more time to build that rapport. And then you talked about consistency being so important, really appreciated that note. And then, so you talked about the structure of the sessions being kind of pretty much consistent week over week, but you have like different sessions also that take place throughout the course of the curriculum. So you mentioned grief, I think. Are there other sessions you wanted to note? 

0:19:28.5 KM: Yeah. So we start off really, really basic so that folks don't feel like they have to share something deeply personal right off the bat. So we should start off with a workshop that's really just going over the group norms, how it's gonna work, how it's gonna flow, why we're making art. And then people really just are talking about their name and they make a name tag. So that's kind of like the first thing. From there, our second workshop is focused on different skills and interests that people have. And the reason we do that one is because so often, folks that are incarcerated are just seen as a criminal or just one thing. And so the reality is, is that they have so many awesome things going for them and it's just showcasing that saying, hey, I'm a father, I'm a grandfather, I love learning math, whatever it is.

0:20:21.8 KM: And they get to talk about that. The third week we talk about gratitude and how different people or things that they're grateful for. In the next week, we talk about building goals, which is one of our favorite workshops. I think people really get a lot about out of that really setting like a really tangible smart goal for themselves and getting to make and design a journal that they can kind of keep track of their goals and keep reaching for that positive future. We talk about self-care and different practices people can really try to engage in while they're incarcerated and they think through like different avenues of self-care and things that they can tangibly do. We talk about what we call window of time, which is really just a mental space that folks can transport to in moments of stress.

0:21:14.2 KM: And I think that one's a really good one especially because people can't leave where they are. They're stuck in prison for however long. So that's a really nice workshop for people to be like, I can pull up this deeply important image of a beach, or I can smell the ocean, I can smell the cookies my mom used to make me, whatever it is, without needing to go anywhere at all, just have your own mind for that. We talk about... In the next workshop, we really are comparing kind of the way the judgements people have of us versus who we really are. And as you can kind of see, they kind of build a little bit and get more and more personal. As we build through the workshop series, we do a workshop on feelings, and we wait until Workshop 8 to do that one because just jumping in and being like we're gonna talk about feelings to a group of 17 men is not gonna fly.

0:22:09.4 KM: I wouldn't wanna do that either. So we wait till eight weeks in to do that one. And that just explores emotions, how people would ideally like to express their emotions, ways that maybe they haven't been so proud of in ways that they've expressed their emotions, in particular anger. And so that's a really... It gets a little bit deeper when we're talking there. Folks are able to come up with their own affirmations. We do go into detail thinking about grief. We found that a lot of people lost loved ones while they were incarcerated and had no way to express that. And so we designed that workshop so people would have an avenue to talk about people that they've lost. And we've had people crying in that workshop, which again, is not super common in a group inside of a men's facility. So we have people really feeling like, yeah, by week 10, I feel like I can express myself, I can talk about this person that was important to me.

0:23:08.8 KM: We talk about resilience and how folks are able have that inside of themselves, their internal strengths. We talk about community and healthy relationships, and we also talk about celebrating successes, and that's where we end our workshops. So our final workshop is, how can you celebrate yourself? How can you keep going with all these amazing things that you've started? And you'll notice that I'd went through 14 different workshops, but I didn't say anything about sexual abuse or sexual assault, and that is purposeful. So all of our workshops are broad and things that will help build up a person regardless of their experiences and regardless of if they feel comfortable talking about abuse. So it's really just a way to process trauma without actually naming that trauma so people can really just decide where they are in their healing journey and where they need to go with it.

0:24:00.2 LM: Kris, this is so great. I really appreciate that we get to work on this project on like a planning and resource creation and technical assistance sort of way, and then you're also out doing some of these direct services that can help inform that other work and that you're sharing with us today. Is there anything else that you wanted to talk about with our audience before we wrap things up? 

0:24:25.9 KM: I think just the final thing I'd love to share is just a quote from someone that attended our group, a past participant, just in talking about the groups, he said he was able to gain emotional intelligence, relieve stress throughout and gained creative insight. And another person shared that he was able to gain motivation. And I think all of those things and the things that people have said about the groups, just they keep me wanting to keep doing this work. And I hope folks that are thinking about going and starting groups feel inspired and feel like they wanna do groups or if you're doing groups, you're also getting some of this wonderful feedback.

0:25:02.8 LM: Thanks so much for this, Kris. It was really great talking with you today. And thanks for listening to this episode of Resource on the Go. For more resources and information about understanding, responding to and preventing sexual assault, visit our website at nsvrc.org and you can also get in touch with us by emailing resources at nsvrc-respecttogether.org.

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